Self-Acceptance and Belonging With Dyslexia

What changes when we stop trying to fit in and start allowing ourselves to be who we really are?  In this episode of The Choice Space Podcast, Dr Lee David talks with Liz Evans, The Untypical OT  – occupational therapist, parent and advocate for neurodivergent families. They explore how to live authentically with dyslexia, the emotional impact of late diagnosis and the sense of relief that comes from finally understanding yourself.

They discuss how masking, perfectionism and shame can take hold when differences go unrecognised  – and how self-acceptance, humour and simple strategies can restore balance. Liz shares her personal journey from struggle to strength, and the lessons she’s learned about parenting, belonging and building a life that works with, not against, the way her brain works.

A compassionate, grounded conversation for anyone learning to drop the mask and embrace difference  – in themselves or someone they love.

What we cover

• Why late diagnosis brings relief, anger and unexpected grief
• The hidden toll of masking on mental health
• The shift to self-understanding and acceptance
• Practical tools to make everyday life easier
• Humour and flexibility in family life
• Letting go of perfection and owning strengths
• Belonging in neurodivergent communities

Key moments

00:00 Emotional rollercoaster of late diagnosis
 02:40 What occupational therapy really means
 06:33 Why joy and fun are essential occupations
 10:12 Masking and shame
 19:37 The Choice Pause –  connection and acceptance
 23:08 How honesty builds trust and connection
 26:48 Anger and grief that come with understanding
 32:27 Belonging, community and self-acceptance
 38:29 Everyday tools to lighten the cognitive load
 40:23 Two simple choices to carry forward

About the host

Dr Lee David is a GP, CBT therapist and author specialising in mental health and wellbeing.  She is the founder of 10 Minute CBT and a podcast host sharing evidence-based tools for self-doubt, stress and everyday decision-making. Lee has written books on CBT, mindfulness and teen wellbeing, and speaks regularly at conferences and in the media. Away from work she enjoys running, hiking, singing in a choir and spending time outdoors with her family.
You can find Lee on Instagram, TikTok, and LinkedIn.  You can find more about her books and wellbeing courses here. 

About the guest

Liz is a dyslexic solo parent in a neurodiverse family and an occupational therapist. She helps neurodivergent parents protect against burnout through a neuroaffirming, trauma and sensory-responsive lens, supporting a shift from survival and overwhelm to greater calm and capacity. You can find Liz on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. She’s also the host of The Untypical Parent Podcast, for neurodivergent families finding their own way of doing things differently.

References

• J Child Psychol Psych 2025;66:1065 
• Aust J Psychol 2024;76:2399114 

About the host

Dr Lee David is a GP, CBT therapist and author specialising in mental health and wellbeing. Lee has written many books on CBT, mindfulness and teen wellbeing, and speaks regularly at conferences and in the media. Away from work she enjoys running, hiking, singing in a choir and spending time outdoors with her family. You can find Lee through her website and on Instagram, TikTok (@dr.lee.david), Facebook and LinkedIn.  You can find more about her books, wellbeing courses and therapy here:  https://linktr.ee/dr.lee.david 

Transcript

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (00:00)
what also came part of my diagnosis was the anger So I went through the initial kind of being scared and worried, then feeling very relieved and then feeling incredibly angry that I had gone through all of my life, not knowing and the impact that that had had on me emotionally and on my mental health.

do you know what the biggest thing is? And I think it didn't need, it didn't have to have been that hard. It was really, really hard and it didn't need to have been that hard. And that's the bit I think that you feel sad about and cross about and frustrated by is it didn't have to have been that bad.

Lee (00:46)
Welcome to the Choice Space podcast. I'm Dr Lee David, GP, CBT therapist and author. Today's episode explores how dyslexia can shape family life and how we can make everyday choices that support wellbeing and confidence at home, at school and beyond. Dyslexia sits within the wider neurodivergent landscape alongside ADHD, autism,

and other ways that brains think and learn differently. It's much more than reading or spelling. Dyslexia can also influence memory, attention, organisation and the rhythm of our daily routines. And I've linked some recent studies in the show notes if you'd like to explore this further.

When dyslexia goes unrecognized, it can lead to self-doubt, reduce confidence and make family life more stressful. Yet many people also bring great strengths, including creativity, insight and social understanding that can thrive when they're valued and recognized. In today's episode, we're going to look at how families can nurture those strengths and find balanced, practical ways forward. I'm joined by Liz Evans, the untypical occupational therapist and parent,

with lived experience of and the wider neurodivergent world to share what this could look like in everyday Welcome, Liz. Could you start by introducing yourself and your background?

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (02:09)
Hi, yeah, thanks for having me. So my name is Liz Evans. I am the untypical OT also known as an occupational therapist, for quite a long time, 24 years probably now. my career has meandered around from working in child and adolescent mental health to adult mental health in various different roles and things that I've done.

And as you said, I am a parent, I'm a dyslexic parent I'm a solo parent to two boys. One is neurotypical and one is neurodivergent.

Lee (02:38)
could you start by explaining what an OT does? think people sometimes get confused. They sometimes think it relates to occupational work. And actually, I think it's much broader than that.

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (02:40)
Yeah.

Yes,

it is. So we often get very But actually what an occupational therapist is, is we look at occupations and that isn't, as you just rightly said, Lee, it isn't about work. So occupations are the things that we do every day. So it might be things that you do that you enjoy doing.

Say for example, mine's like, I motorbiking. So that's one of my occupations. makes me slightly more kind of the untypical, maybe untypical OT It might be my parenting is an occupation. It could be just looking after myself. So being able to, those kinds of self-care skills, as well as work and the skills that you might need to do for work. And occupational therapists, I think it's a very positive job, occupational therapy

We look at all the things that people are really great at and all their skills. We also look at the things that they might find a bit more tricky. And then we find ways to support them to do the things that they want to do and need to do, which I think is always a nice bit that we get to do actually. It's about making people as independent as possible, but also being able to do what they want to do and creating health and wellbeing in those people.

We might work with kids and they do sensory stuff or it might be more medical kind of stuff. So it might be things like if you're on the orthopedic wards, if people have hurt their hip, we might come in and put different equipment in. But all the time fundamentally what we're looking at is how can people do the things that they want to do and need to do.

Lee (04:10)
So I love this idea actually, that occupation is so much more than work. And that sounds very fundamental to how as an OT you'd approach people. And I think we all need to maybe think about that more broadly in that kind of holistic view about what matters to me and what things really do I need to get done to live effectively in my daily life.

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (04:33)
Absolutely. And I think we get very wonky, I think, if it's my best description of I think, you as you become adults, things become very focused on work. And we need to work to be able to pay for things and to survive. But actually, what often we lose as we become adults is the fun side of things, the things that we enjoy and that we love. And I think also with the work that I do with parents is that we often

enter into a parenting role and it becomes all about our children myself included I've gone through periods of time when People said to me what do you enjoy doing and I thought I don't know I've lost that out of my life and actually when it becomes unbalanced like that That's when we know we head towards Kind of ill health or it affects our mental health and our wellbeing is when we become very stuck in one section of our occupations and we don't look at

how they balance. suppose, again, that's what OT is about, it's about creating some of that balance that we bring in, not just necessary, but also the fun and the joy bits as well.

Lee (05:32)
Definitely and almost making those necessary rather than I think people often view them as a bit of a bolt on - I'll do something enjoyable when I've got a bit of time But I need to get everything else done first and if you view it as an occupation then actually we need to put as much energy into those sides of life as we do into all the other the jobs, the pressures, the stresses, all those things that we put so much time and effort into and maybe we do need to be starting to

our recharge time, our enjoyment time, our connection time as an occupation.

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (06:01)
Yeah.

Yeah. It's the easiest thing to drop. most people, when things get tricky and things get a bit hard, the nice stuff drops. It's the first stuff to go. understandably, when we get time constraints and things like that, but we have to stay quite conscious to think about how do we make sure that we keep those elements as part of our daily lives? Because without them, actually the stress and the difficulties

It's harder, I think, then, to move out of those when we've lost all the joy and the things that we enjoy.

Lee (06:33)
So, as an OT, as a parent, and also as a dyslexic person, how has living with dyslexia influenced how you see the world and how you move through your daily life?

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (06:43)
So dyslexia, it's a big sigh having dyslexia. I wasn't actually diagnosed with dyslexia until it was a couple of years ago and I'm in my forties. School was a really, really hard place for me and I was always kind of described as the anxious person, like within my family, by teachers, I was an anxious child. Looking back now, I think I know why.

but it wasn't diagnosed at that point. So I kind of fumbled my way through school, kept a low profile, kept down out of the way, thought I was not very bright, really struggled with school generally. And as I say, was just keep out of the way. Both my parents, funnily enough, were teachers. So I think there was a lot of masking on my side and then a lot of extra support at home that I kind of, wasn't what...

You know, back in the day when I remember thinking about dyslexia, it was the kids that needed to be pulled out of class. They needed a lot of extra support. And I was kind of managing by working really, really hard. I suppose there was different bits of my dyslexia that I now know is dyslexia that I didn't know was back then things like being really worried if a teacher asked me a question because I couldn't remember what they asked me. I would lose the first bit of the question, remember the last bit.

or being given instructions, I couldn't hold all the instructions. So my working memory is pretty poor and I struggle with my working memory quite a lot. So I think I did that and I went into kind of secondary again, did a very similar thing, hid at secondary, kept out of the way. And I think I had picked things like PE biology, arts, all that kind of stuff.

I didn't have to do much writing. I think dyslexics are great at that. We will find a way round it. And I think sometimes I often think that that's how we're missed is we are very creative. We do think outside the box. And when we come up against the problem, we go round it rather than try and find a way through it. And I think possibly that's why we mask so well and we possibly are undiscovered as well as now. think there's much more understanding around it and around the nuances of it and that

actually, once you've met, I think like they say with autistic people is once you've met one dyslexic person, you've met one dyslexic person, it affects all of us differently. you  work and family life has been, has been tricky with having a diagnosis of dyslexia. But having the diagnosis was probably one of the best things I have ever done. It has given me a sense of understanding of why I do things.

and why things are difficult, but it's also allowed me to put strategies in. So I know why it's difficult, which I didn't know before. I think I just thought if I just worked harder, if I was just a bit cleverer, if I just did it a bit better, it would be okay. But actually it wasn't that. I needed strategies in place. But until you know where the difficulties are, where do you put the support? if that makes sense?

And I think more and more along with the work that I do, majority of my work is with parents now and supporting parents through burnout and things like that, is that knowing about how dyslexia impacts us as a parent, because it does have an impact on my parenting as well in loads of different ways.

But also if you're a parent maybe in an additional needs family or when you're having to deal with big systems that involve lots of writing and lots of reading how do you manage all of that as well? There's a huge amount to take on and self-esteem side of things is really hard. I think that's the biggest impact I think I've had.

Lee (10:12)
there's a whole lot of information there that was really, really useful for us to hear. was hearing something about initially masking and the toll that that takes. And we hear a lot about the impact of masking in many different types of neurodivergence and how I think masking has a bigger impact on mental health the actual neurodivergence itself.

because it's how we start to perceive ourselves and trying to compensate for areas of challenge, not finding positive ways to embrace and recognise and find acceptance and understanding, but more through trying to hide those aspects of ourselves and perhaps bringing a sense of shame around the fact that they're there. So we know that there's something we find hard, but it's not really been discussed openly. So we then try and pretend it's not actually happening.

and that puts us under a lot of pressure. Is that something that you would relate to?

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (11:05)
Hugely, hugely, think through school, absolutely. But then also being a professional. I have this memory of when I first started being an occupational therapist and back in the days before it was all computerised, of course, and we used to have to hand write our notes, is that I was made to write my notes in draft first to be checked by a senior before they could go into the,

notes and that was soul destroying. That was awful and I was very ashamed of the way that I wrote. I didn't want anyone to see how I wrote. I would avoid it at all costs. I'm much better talking than I am writing. I'd often feel quite frustrated that I couldn't get what was in my head out I knew what I wanted to

to write, but it just never came out on the paper right. And people didn't understand what I was trying to say. And funny enough, I managed better as I became, when I got into a professional role, because the style of writing that we have as professionals is much more bullet point. It's not kind of all this flowery language and I actually thought, I prefer this. And I would bullet point and just name what I saw, rather than having to get very creative in how I wrote.

But now I suppose in the job that I do is I do a lot more work online with social media and I've really struggled with that. And that's taken a lot of getting used to trying to find where I feel comfortable with that and owning being And that's why I put it in everything, I'm dyslexic. I just, I am. And I've had to do presentations, one of the first things I will say is I'm dyslexic.

there are going to be typos and things in this presentation. Because I, over the years, have heard other professionals, friends, all sorts of people say they're like the grammar police. And somehow they think if you've got poor grammar or poor writing, then you are somehow intellectually not as bright as other people. And that brought a lot of shame for me that I felt I wasn't good enough.

I wasn't good enough to be an OT at times. I wasn't good enough to be a parent. I wasn't good enough. Just generally, I wasn't good enough. And I think, like you said, huge impact on my mental health and my wellbeing and anxiety levels for me. and it's only been since finding ways to kind of, it's easier for me to express myself. Like, you know, I run a podcast like you do Lee. And, and if you'd asked me back,

say 20 years ago, you'll be running a podcast, I'd have laughed. And if you had seen me 20 years, probably maybe more 25 years ago at school, I would say probably a lot of people would have looked at me and thought there is no way. I was shy, I was quiet, I never spoke in class ever. If I had to speak, I would feel sick about talking. So not only did I know I found the writing difficult, it then started to seep into everything.

because I didn't really understand, I don't think what it was I was finding difficult. I just thought it was just me communication for me was just difficult. So I stopped, I think. I just became very quiet, very withdrawn and felt my opinions didn't really count. And I had no way really of being able to express them.

Lee (14:07)
So we get that intersection between these negative self beliefs that we develop when we don't have a neutral way of labeling my experience. So I find it difficult to things down at this point. There are some things I find it hard to express in writing becomes, does this mean I'm not as clever as I'm not as good as other people? And so we develop these really negative self judgements, which obviously undermine our confidence.

and they trigger what you're describing that really difficult experience of feeling shame in professional environments. If you feel like we might be exposed to others when you had to write in front of seniors and for fear of being judged for not being able to do it somehow well enough, whatever that means and how that can link to their emotions as well. And I would see a lot of people who experience

threat response. So we get a fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. So we get flight. I'm just I can't do this is too hard. I'm going to shut down and freeze. Also, I literally I've got no words at the moment. feel I feel unable to contribute. I've been asked a question and I just feel completely blank. And then we also have that fawn response of

I need to make sure people don't judge me negatively. So I'm going to have to be really nice. I'm going to have to look as amazing as possible to make sure. But it's not based on this lovely connection and feeling safe. It's based on if they spot that I'm not as good as I then I'm going to be exposed. And actually I could be rejected and shamed publicly, which would be obviously feel really, really threatening and difficult. So it's not a positive connection. It's driven by the threat response. Can you relate to those aspects of threat?

coming up when you are challenged in terms of communicating in ways that might feel threatening.

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (15:54)
Absolutely. And I think like you've just described, I think in school, was very much I froze. just absolutely, words wouldn't come out. I would trip over words. I remember those horrible times when they used to make you stand up with a book and read and it would be Shakespeare, Lee! it wasn't even proper English.

Lee (16:15)
that's almost impossible for all of us, you know, I think everybody finds Shakespeare difficult.

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (16:21)
It was just, and I remember them going round, it's funny, isn't it? You these real vivid memories. And again, that's that kind of trauma stress response, isn't it? Is it them going round in the classroom and knowing my turn was coming. and I'm following everybody thinking, okay, that's what that word is. now can I remember how to say that word when it comes to my time? Of course, now I remember, with my working memory, not a hope in hell.

And then of course you'd to stand up with this book and read it in front of the whole class. It was just, it was awful. I would feel physically sick. How I didn't become a non-school attender, I have no idea. I think how I didn't start bunking off, I too worried about getting caught probably. But anxiety levels for me at school were up through the roof, probably at their worst there.

And that threat response and feeling, yeah, quite unsafe at times. and it's like when you're at school, where you don't want to look different. You just want to be like everybody else. And now I quite embrace the fact that I'm different and that's quite cool. And I like that. And I can really settle into that. But as a kid, and when you're a teenager, that's not easy. You just want to be able to do your stuff, do your exams and get out the other side. I hated school, hated it.

I think I still have those kind of feelings of threat. I think especially with the job that I do on social media, the writing side of it, I can spend hours thinking, how have I written that? Is that okay? And will somebody misunderstand what I'm saying? Because you know, it's like sometimes you just take a comma out, it reads completely differently. And grammar is, know, things like commas is...

I really struggle with that. So then I kind of try and use support systems to help me with that. But it's taken me a long time to settle into that, to be able to own it. And I think there is an element of owning it. again, around my career, similar things, I've had people say things to me over time, or I've heard little comments about the way that something's been written, or I got told by my...

by a supervisor once about my report writing, that my report writing was unusual and it was, I write how I speak. And I think, I mean, don't do report writing now because I hate it. But now I've worked for myself, could get right to not doing that anymore. But before when I was, course, in a more typical role as an OT, I had to report write. But actually I started to get feedback from parents.

I really like your style of report because I can understand it because I was writing as I was talking, but I was a long time that I felt very shameful of the reports that I wrote. And that would put me into that. Like you talk about that fright, flight, freeze response or fawning and trying to get alongside somebody and trying to pretend I was trying to be them. I would try and write reports like them. So I spent a long time reading other people's reports and thinking, okay, I just need to write like that.

But that would take me forever, hours and hours and hours. And then of course, I'm always on the back foot trying to catch up, doing loads and loads of work in my own time because I can't get it done during the day. And other people are banging out reports in, you know, an hour, two hours. It would take me nearly all day to write reports. Hence I don't do them anymore.

Lee (19:37)
This is the choice pause. A short two to three minute tool you'll hear in every episode, each time with something different to help you pause, notice and choose your next step.

These are practical tools drawn from my books and online wellbeing courses, and you'll find links to these in the show notes.

Today's pause is about making space for connection and acceptance.

Life, especially when neurodivergence is part of the picture, can easily become focused on managing, organising, coping or keeping things on track. This pause invites a shift towards noticing moments of connection, care and acceptance, both for others and for ourselves.

Take a slow breath in and a longer breath out.

Picture someone in your family or bring yourself to mind.

Rather than getting caught up in what you need to get done next, notice one thing you genuinely appreciate about yourself or the other person.

It might be a smile, an effort made, a moment of patience or simply the courage to keep showing up.

Hold that appreciation in mind for a few breaths.

Notice what changes when you see this person or yourself through a lens of understanding, acceptance and care.

Maybe there's a softening, a small warmth, a loosening of pressure, or just a quiet sense of ease.

Now ask yourself, what small choice could I make today that deepens that sense of acceptance and connection?

It might be pausing before reacting, offering a kind word, or allowing things to be good enough for now.

and take one more steady breath.

carry that feeling of connection and acceptance with you into whatever comes next in your day.

Lee (21:47)
it kind of sounds like you've moved towards a sense of self acceptance, of knowing yourself and being more at peace with this is the me that I am and perhaps finding more authenticity of being you, being the Liz version of doing writing and not trying to be these other people. And I think that's really important that we do develop our own voice.

even if it is one that isn't exactly like others, but actually finding a way to express ourselves. It also sounds like earlier in your career, actually choosing health, a health professional role in some ways did help because it created some structure around writing that enabled you to not have to have some of the pressures of, for example, Shakespeare, but actually you could write in bullet. So there are choices around, well, what type of role am I going to take on that will actually maximize my

And I wonder if as an adolescent, if that's a lot harder because I think we are wired, especially in adolescence to try to fit in. There's a big driver to try and look like others and there's a lot of social pressure

to somehow fit in and I see it in adolescents that I've worked with. It's really hard if people feel that they don't fit in, there's something inherently really difficult for young people around that. Is that something that you've experienced in family life, also in your OT work?

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (23:08)
a lot of the work that I, when I worked more so with the kids, and I did more kind of, kind of child and adolescent mental health work is that I wouldn't pretend to be something I wasn't. And that was even before I was diagnosed dyslexic, I knew I was. But I felt it actually helped my relationship with those kids because I wasn't perfect.

I wasn't holding, you know, this is what you aspire to be this perfect person. There's no such thing. And by being able to admit that and talk to kids about that, I think they, especially with the kids that we are working with, because they're struggling, that's why they've come to see us for whatever reason, that to find an adult going, I'm owning this, I've struggled with this, you're going to find words in here that I can, and I'm going to need your help. And

I think that's really, really important and I think that actually helped me build connections. Like you were talking about earlier, that there's stronger connections that actually when I was pretending to be somebody I wasn't, I wasn't building those proper connections. But actually once I started to go, this is me, then I think the connections did come and from a work perspective with the kids that I worked with, I think that really helped. I still struggle more with the adults.

I still feel sometimes, well, I think she's dyslexic, she's not gonna be that good as an OT. And I have to do quite a lot of self-talk with myself around that one. And I think that's possibly, it's why I called myself the untypical OT. You know, I do work slightly untypical in the fact I work majority of the time is with parents, but it's also about me and about the way that I work and the way that my brain works. It's not typical.

It's untypical and I'm okay with that. And it's really funny because I thought people would think, that's, don't want to work with her because she's called untypical or she's dyslexic. But actually most of time when I say I'm the untypical OT, people smile and then they go, what's that about? And it gives me an inroad to be able to say, and whatever it is I kind of want to bring in and it's usually around the dyslexia. And I found I've moved away from, I used to

say I was dyslexic before I was diagnosed, I would say I was dyslexic as defence. So it was very much a protective mechanism. You can't say anything to me because I'm dyslexic, I would throw it out there and then hide behind it. Now I think I use it as a, it's a conversation. I'm dyslexic, I'm gonna find that difficult. We have a bit of a laugh about it. I'm not worried about it, but I'm gonna let you know that I find this bit difficult and I'm okay with that. And I don't feel judged.

I may still be judged by people, but if I am, I'm not the right person for them. I've got very much, like you said, I've kind of got very much more comfortable in thinking, well, I am who I am. And if someone doesn't want to work with somebody that finds more challenging and that drives them wild, then there's loads of other OTs out there, go find them. That's fine. But if you want to work in a different way, come work with me.

Lee (25:52)
I think that sounds so lovely and it's really it sounds such an accepting a self-accepting approach to working with yourself and with other people and to be able to be you to bring that real humanity of this is what I bring probably immense strengths and abilities and an experience through navigating the dyslexic world and the neurodivergent landscape brings you a lot of empathy awareness

and recognition of other people's challenges. So in fact, it allows you to meet them in a place where you're not somehow the expert above as much as a collaborative side-by-side approach where we can say, well, how could we approach this together? And it feels like that would be really powerful. And I think you're right. We all have amazing strengths. We all have areas where perhaps we could and I think

accepting that and recognising that that's okay feels like a really important starting point for developing on through life.

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (26:48)
Yeah.

Yeah. And I think for me, the only regret I have about my diagnosis is I didn't get it earlier. That's the only bit. And I think I was quite shocked. I wasn't ready for the diagnosis and the emotions that came with it. One I thought before I had it was, what am I going to do if they say I'm not dyslexic? There was the, I'm a fraud. And actually there's nothing wrong and it's just you.

And I was terrified of that. took me a long time to think, okay, I'm going to go for it. I'm going to go for an assessment. And I had to find the right person to do the assessment for me because I felt really, really vulnerable during that assessment. And having masked for years, that by the time I came to do that assessment, my masking, were so fully in place to let that down in front of somebody,

was really scary. And I don't think people are aware of that sometimes around diagnoses and thinking about all the emotions that do come with that. So one, I was terrified of the assessment and really frightened that I had to work quite hard and had a great person that assessed me that made me feel comfortable to be able to let go.

of some of those strategies, because some of those strategies people don't even realise I'm doing. And I could have dodged my way through some of that, that it wouldn't have been picked up quite so easily. There was the relief when I got it that I thought, okay. There was a report that came through, which I laughed with the dyslexia assessor. He's given me a report, it's like 20 pages long. I'm dyslexic.

So we did laugh about that and she was saying, you know, we're going to have to think of a way that I can get this done for adults, that it's more easy to digest. And I've had to go back, I read little bits of it and I do funny little things like I'll take bits of it and put it into things like AI for me and say, can you just explain this in a different way? Or can you bullet point this for me? And it will spit that back out and I go, okay, yeah, I've got it. Or I'll use a family member and say, can you read this bit and just explain what they mean by it? Because I often get quite lost in what they're meaning.

but what also came part of my diagnosis was the anger and that bit caught me off guard and it came later. So I went through the initial kind of being scared and worried, then feeling very relieved and then feeling incredibly angry that I had gone through all of my life, not knowing and the impact that that had had on me emotionally and on my mental health.

And the, you the shoulda, coulda, woulda, you you look back and I haven't got too stuck in that, but naturally we always go back and go, what could things have been different? Would I have been less anxious person? Would I have had, you know, less maybe need, the mental health needs are around it. And would, could things have been different for me? But then I think, but it's probably maybe the person I am and the job that I do and things like that. you know, say, if they shoulda, coulda, woulda, but that did.

That did catch me off guard, the anger side of it.

Lee (29:38)
And do you think you were aiming the anger wider? it sometimes we blame ourselves? I should have done something differently. Where did you direct your anger?

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (29:46)
I think I'd had anger inside for such a long time at myself and being cross and frustrated that I couldn't do things. That no, it turned outward.

I know I was masking and I know how during the assessment, they said to me, your masking is unbelievable. The strategies you have got in place that has got you this far. And I got through university just, but of course did OT with a massive,

practical element to it and less writing needs. So I moved around all the time thinking, okay, that doesn't feel right. Well, how can I flex around that? Which again is a dyslexic brain. But yeah, definitely, I think it was more outward and I was cross that university had picked it up, but hadn't done anything about it. They kind of said to me, well, do you think you could be dyslexic? I went, no, not dyslexic. I wish they had...

continued that conversation rather than kind of going to me, okay. And then, you know, I was, what was I, when you go to university, 18, 19, I'd had a horrible time at school and someone's saying to me, now, do you think you're dyslexic? No, I'm not. Well, why didn't someone talk to me a bit more about it and talk to me about what dyslexia meant? my, my perception of what dyslexia was at that point was, said, those kids being pulled out of the school, out of classrooms, being taken outside to read.

That didn't happen to me. So no, I'm not dyslexic, but I hate reading.

Lee (31:03)
I wonder, sometimes being angry is really important for us. It gives us an energy and a bit of fight to respond to some of the challenges. So, having some anger is quite an empowering emotion to hold. Sometimes it also comes hand in hand with with a sense of grief, because actually, when you look back, there is a real there can be a real sense of grief about

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (31:16)
Mm.

Lee (31:25)
some of the difficulties and that sense of this could have been this the coulda side and actually needing to mourn a sense of some of the ease perhaps that we could have

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (31:36)
Yeah, absolutely. think there is a loss. You do feel a sense of loss and mourning of what it could have been. I think, do you know what the biggest thing is? And I think it didn't need, it didn't have to have been that hard. It was really, really hard and it didn't need to have been that hard. And that's the bit I think that you feel sad about and cross about and frustrated by is it didn't have to have been that bad.

Lee (32:06)
wonder there's a real need to feel, to have felt supported, a need to feel recognized, to feel understood, have that self understanding and a sense of ease and kind of comfort in the world, which perhaps wasn't there. And it's just recognizing that that's what this means. It means that I'm really wanting to feel secure and stable, cared about, understood.

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (32:27)
Absolutely. I think since getting the diagnosis, I think it almost gave me a sense of belonging. And actually I find there's a very strong neurodivergent community out there. And I always thought to be part of that, I had to be autistic or ADHD. But actually I don't feel excluded from that being dyslexic. And we know being dyslexic is part of being neurodivergent. Our brains think differently, but actually...

I feel very accepted in those communities and that has given me a sense of belonging of understanding and has given me the strength to go, I am what I am. And there is nothing wrong with that. And the biggest, we talked about the shame, the biggest place that I felt shame was through my work. I felt I wasn't as good as everybody else. I wasn't a great OT.

And actually I now know I am a really good OT. I just do it in a slightly different way. And actually my dyslexic brain lends itself to OT brilliantly because I go outside of the box. So if people get stuck and they can't do something, actually my brain goes, this is great, I've got this. I can find a way around this. And, and like you said, it's, it's much more along working alongside people. never come in as the

the expert, I'm not an expert, an expert in me, but I'm not an expert in anybody else. I just go alongside them and they let me go alongside them for a little bit. And I'm part of that journey with them for a little bit. being able to support them to not be dependent on me, I'm not the answer, is finding a way that they can go off and do it and be them. And I think getting my diagnosis has helped me do that, it's become a better OT.

to be able to work with people to do that.

Lee (34:10)
it sounds like starting to recognise a lot of your positive qualities and and to integrate that into this wider sense of who I am, which is just a whole range of stuff, which we all are complex mix. And that's what's lovely about it. What are some of the other positive qualities that you've been able to see in yourself? Perhaps you may have seen them before, but you can now link them more to dyslexia or your neurodivergent

parts of yourself.

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (34:34)
Yeah.

problem solving is a big thing for me. I'm very creative. And I think what I've really kind of embraced for me as a parent is that my kids could out spell me at six. You know, my kids have got these amazing brains that are almost photographic with spellings. So they would bring home the spelling tests and I would.

Some of them I couldn't read. I was having to ask them what words they were. And then we laugh about it and they were pretty good, kids. But we would do spelling tests and I would, they would spell the words to me and I'd go, no, that's wrong. And they'd go, check again, mum. And I'd be like, no, no, no, it's wrong. And they'd go, okay. And I'd go, spell it again. And they'd spell it and I'd go, no, it's wrong. And they'd go, no, it's right. Because I was listening to them spell.

and trying to read it. And then they were doing that horrible phonetic spelling that just blew my brains. So they, we laugh about it now and it's funny. But what it has done for us as a family is enabled my kids to see again that I'm not a perfect parent. I'm not a perfect adult. And actually we work as a team.

what they struggle with. So they come home and they're brilliant, spellings, but they might come home and really struggle with an art project or something. I'm like, I've got this, I'm all over this. I've got this bit. They're like, mum I'm really struggling with this bit. And I think how amazing is that, that I can show my kids that we've all got different strengths and different challenges. And, but together we make an amazing team. And just because they're my kids, it doesn't mean we can't be part of a team.

Lee (35:52)
Yeah.

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (36:11)
They don't have to be, you know, me the kind of, you this is how we do it. And if you can't, then you're doing it wrong. They come up with great strategies that I haven't even thought of.

Lee (36:19)
just sounds like you do that with such a sense of humour and loving connection that it sounds like that would be just a fun experience. So we're from a test, spelling test, which could potentially be stressful for everybody and possibly drilling on tests. You know, how do you spell you're turning it into something that actually there's space for it to be difficult. There's space for you to say, this isn't my strength.

And so there's a lot of modelling there about acceptance of self, but also learning and being willing to embrace it so that you're not stuck with, well, this is me, I can't change, but very much, well, let's find the way through together, a kind of approach. Does that feel right?

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (36:59)
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, another example is with my other son, he checks with me until all the time, because my, my organisation can be a little chaotic at times. I've got like three diaries and then I have to remember to look in them and all that kind of stuff. And I'll read text messages, but then not always take on all the information. I haven't remembered it. And numbers are a nightmare. So timings, telephone numbers, anything like that. And I, we got up and it was a football day I'd gone out for a walk and come back and I'd woken my son up and said,

We need to get up for football and he said, Mum, what's the time? And I said, oh, it's fine. We've got plenty of time. And he said, but we're playing away today. And I said, no, we're at home. And he went, hmm, I don't think we are, Of course, I then double check and we are away. And quite a considerable time away. But he, I say again, has just learned to kind of laugh with that. And I think there is a lot of laughter. We have learned

to laugh when it goes wrong, because it does go wrong, and we find a way around it. I don't take it too seriously. And like you say, like with the spellings, spellings for me as a kid was atrocious. I remembered it over and over and over trying to remember them. And then I'd remember them in a list and then get to school. And then the teacher would take them out of sequence. And then I couldn't spell them.

I knew with my kids, was definitely, there had to be an element of fun in there for it because it was just, it was torturous spelling. I hated it.

Lee (38:20)
Can you just share a few other tips and tools that you might use with some of the families that you work with that make life just a bit easier?

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (38:29)
do use AI quite a lot AI for me, I use as kind of like a sounding board and I don't mean that and it gives me advice. It structures things for me. So when things get really complicated or maybe I'm trying to write something like a letter for school or wherever.

I will use AI. I'll talk into it and then I'll just say to it, you know, leave it as it is, but can you just structure the flow of this? And that makes a huge difference for me is that I can kind of offload the bit that I'm not so great at that it can organise and structure and get flow back into things for me.

I'm really rubbish. We often run out of food because I'll forget to do the shopping. And you get to the day and you think you open the fridge and think, crikey, I have no idea what I'm going to feed them. AI, I've found that if I put a list of ingredients into AI, it will come out with possible recipes for me to do. And it just takes like a mental load off of that. think when you're working as hard as you are, when you are neurodivergent, when we're in a world that doesn't quite fit us.

Is there any way you can offload a bit of that cognitive load to make such a difference? And then I think the other one for me is finding other people that get it. Surrounding yourself from people that get it that aren't going to be judgmental of you. And if those are the people that are around you, my advice is leave them somewhere else. It doesn't do you any good, I don't think, being surrounded by that and trying to kind of let go of that idea of perfection.

Because although you might be neurodivergent, What's normal? Have you met normal yet, Lee? Nor have I. I don't know what it is I'm actually aspiring to be. Because there is no such thing as perfect or normal. I'm just me. And being able to get comfortable with that as quickly as possible, I think is the biggest key.

Lee (39:58)
I've got no idea.

Amazing. thank you so much, Liz. I'm just going to ask you to finish off by saying, if listeners were to carry away just two small ideas or choices from our conversation today, what would you want those to be?

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (40:23)
The first one is be you. Don't try and be somebody else. It's just not worth it. You are you. You're never going to be that other person. Give that one up. And get comfortable with getting it wrong.

Lee (40:35)
love those. And I think I'd echo those. I probably would have said, be you as well. And I'm gonna add to that connect with people who strengthen your sense you feel that sense of belonging that you talked about nourishing positive relationships that build us up. find your tribe,

and connect with them. So thank you again, Liz, for coming and talking so honestly. And I really enjoyed our conversation today.

Liz Evans - The Untypical OT (41:02)
You too. Thanks for having me.

Lee (41:04)
thanks for listening to the Choice Space podcast today. I hope this conversation has offered a little more room to pause, breathe and find your own way forward. If today's episode has been helpful, please download, follow and share with someone who might value the space as well. I've linked the ways you can connect with Liz in the show notes, including links to her Instagram and her LinkedIn pages.

I'd love to have you with me for the next episode. Until then, take care and keep making space for what matters most.